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Reacting to contacts, reflections on ACE medical changes

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Ever since the "new" AI was implemented, I started noticing a trend in my injuries. I either didn't get hit at all or I got killed. I think I held a personal record of some ~7 missions in a row after the new AI without ever getting injured or killed and on most of those, I was active 2-4 hours each. This left me mostly alone in the AO (well, with some 2-5 people).
Then we implemented the ACE medical changes and much more people started surviving just fine, with lighter injuries.

Somewhere in between though, I seem to have lost an edge. When we take contact, I usually quickly look over to see what's happening, but mostly keep watching my sector. Even if I don't, I tend to be more conservative and hold position, waiting for our leaders to (quickly) come up with a counter plan. But other people don't do that anymore - they move around, abandon their stations, even move into the open to get that sweet sweet shot on the enemy soldier. At least that's what it seems like to me. That's how I went from some 3-8 kills per mission to around 0-2. I usually never even see the contact before it's blasted to oblivion. Because our contact reports are now delivered with bullets.

Or am I just going crazy and not having enough "initiative"? Or did a more aggressive AI, combined with less punishing injuries, turn us into careless players?

Maybe the reasoning is much simpler - we don't do coordinated fire&maneuver like we used to, now we rely much more on the initiative of individuals to spread around and find good ways to kill the enemy. ... Right?

To sum my point up - I feel like we don't take soft contact anymore, we shoot instead. Because if we don't, the next person will.

...

And what about the ACE medical change in general? I'm personally a bit conflicted.

I like that we don't need to completely rely on reinsertions to keep playing (and reinserts are usually much smaller than they used to be) and medics have stuff to do and aren't just mobile bandange resupply.
OTOH, I can also see how it can make players risk much more and be much less "suppressible" and generally distant from a certain level of realism. And I really hate when people say "if you don't wake up in 5 minutes, just respawn, reinsert is in 10". I get the reasoning, but it kinda destroys the IMHO main reason for the system.

Any opinions?
Thanks.
Posted Jun 8, 18 · OP
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I don't think I have changed how I play really. You can judge the accuracy of shots by hearing if they are a hitting near you and if they are not its generally a good idea to move to a better position if there is one available. When contact is all around (or at least in two or more directions) then fire and maneuver is not really a good idea until at least one of those directions is dealt with. Terrain and the nature of the contact dictate the tactics and often we cannot really do anything but ensure we return fire accurately and do not stay in one place for too long if we are taking accurate fire. I think we do fire and maneuver all the time when the enemy is in a single direction and the terrain actually allows it. As for contact reports sometimes we are good and sometimes we are bad but generally you will at least get a direction on the short range. If people are firing and there is no accurate contact report it is usually some attempt at suppression of the enemy of shooting into possible concealment.
Posted Jun 9, 18
Flo
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From the time I’ve played here, it has always been the way that people tend to search for action if the direction they are watching has none. It is then the job of the SL/FTL to tell their people to keep watching their sectors. If anyone see that everyone else the squad is turning their head to the first contact without being instructed to, notify you FTL or SL. He will then either tell the guys to keep watching their sector or tell them to get a proper formation going towards the enemy contact

"That's how I went from some 3-8 kills per mission to around 0-2." I think kills are a bad judgement of this issue. Mine are at least hugely varying, because sometimes the sector i am watching simple does not have the number of enemies coming than another side. Another way this can happen: If there is good squad coordination then a whole squad can watch a single direction. Thus, you have the full fire power directed towards a few enemies; then it's just luck who scores the final shot. Your help putting down fire is not useless though! It is very much important and needed.

"To sum my point up - I feel like we don't take soft contact anymore, we shoot instead. Because if we don't, the next person will." It depends what the ROE (Rules of Engagement) are. If nothing was said that will be fire when fired upon. I have rarely seen people opening up on enemies that were not aware of us without informing and asking first.



wrote:
OTOH, I can also see how it can make players risk much more and be much less "suppressible" and generally distant from a certain level of realism. And I really hate when people say, "if you don't wake up in 5 minutes, just respawn, reinsert is in 10". I get the reasoning, but it kind of destroys the IMHO main reason for the system.

Respawning when you receive treatment from a medic is for me a no go. That is simple rude and definitely destroys the immersion. However, when its 5 to and there no medic in sight or you are just being forgotten than i think it's fair to respawn and make the most of your evening. At this point you are neither providing game play for other players nor yourself.

Posted Jun 9, 18
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Discharged (CNTO Alumni)
As Zeus that day I can confirm some players standing in the face of danger with binoculars on their eyes. But they got killed.
Posted Jun 10, 18
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wrote:
But other people don't do that anymore - they move around, abandon their stations, even move into the open to get that sweet sweet shot on the enemy soldier. At least that's what it seems like to me.

I don't think this is a recent development it is always everyone's first instinct as an FPS player, which we get from other games like BF and COD that reward kills. It however may have become more prevalent in recent times with little training to reinforce good reaction etc and that it has become acceptable to do so because it is permitted by others. The main problem being that there are no consequences to reacting in the wrong way.

wrote:
Or am I just going crazy and not having enough "initiative"? Or did a more aggressive AI, combined with less punishing injuries, turn us into careless players?


This was always my biggest concern with implementing this new medical system but no one else seemed to share my pessimism, although on it's own it would not give us these results it all stems from the fact that you have to play Arma with a bit of role play involved. I am a soldier in a squad and react and work as such this would mean you want immersion from your game play experience. If you don't role play a little this way then you are just playing like you would on any other FPS only with friends in a more team orientated game. We have a mix of both types of player in CNTO and I think it is impossible to change either into the other unless they want to but if they wanted to they would have done so already for the group.

I think a possible solution instead of trying to force what is essentially a choice through gameplay mechanics i.e. AI and Medical settings we are much better off having those who want to play a certain way play in the same squad and those that play the other way in the other squad.

wrote:
To sum my point up - I feel like we don't take soft contact anymore, we shoot instead. Because if we don't, the next person will


I totally agree very rarely have I ever heard soft contact over the radio everyone always shoots first and asks questions later is this the greed of getting kills yes I think so.


Will any of these gameplay styles you want, be achieved through forcing game mechanics, No it will not it can aid the situation and push in either direction but it will never force it.

Regards,
Dachi
Posted Jun 10, 18 · Last edited Jun 10, 18
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Discharged (CNTO Alumni)
Freghar, you really should GM once or twice, you'd get a better view on the subject. I personally think AI could be less brave, it's hard to suppress them. Regarding the medical, I PM-ed you on Discord, maybe tweak more towards old setting if there is a way to get in the middle. I trust you will find the optimal setting.
Posted Jun 10, 18
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